Posts by Disillusioned JW

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

Sea Breeze, though Einstein said he believed in God he also said he did not believe in a personal God (and thus was not a theist). Atheist Richard Dawkins said Einstein only used the word "God" as a metaphor when Einstein said he believed in God and that Einstein was a naturalistic pantheist. But, in reading Einstein's quoted words (some of which are in translation from German to English, rather than originally said in English) I don't think Einstein meant that. Einstein also said he doesn't think he is a pantheist, but there are two kinds of pantheists. The modern kind of pantheist has a naturalistic view of the universe, whereas the old kind of pantheist thought the universe literally was God. It is not clear to me what kind of God Einstein believed in. I get the impression that Einstein was not a deist.

Sea Breeze Newton's theistic thoughts in regards to Newton's cosmological model in which a God maintains the universe are incompatible with modern scientific knowledge.See https://history.aip.org/exhibits/cosmology/ideas/mechuniverse.htm which says the following. "Newtonian gravitational theory practically demanded a continual miracle to prevent the Sun and the fixed stars from being pulled together. Newton envisioned an infinitely large universe, in which God had placed the stars at just the right distances so their attractions cancelled, as precisely as balancing needles on their points." [See also https://sites.uni.edu/morgans/astro/course/Notes/section3/new14.html which also says Newton though the universe was static on large scales.] Therefore if Newton were alive today and still believed in such an outdated cosmological model - one dependent on God frequently intervening to maintain the positions of the celestial objects, while also having modern scientific knowledge, then Newton would be thinking irrationally in regards to cosmology. That would indeed mean he had a number of obsolete ideas about the working of the universe and that he would not be credible as a scientist in regards to cosmology.

Newton believed in a static universe (not an expanding one) which was infinite in size. That is because the universe to him did not look like it was expanding. Such a model forced him to believe the stars were perfectly positioned by God, in order to prevent the pull of gravity from causing all of them to end up in one mass. He didn't know the universe is expanding and that it (at least of our local 'bubble universe' if a multiverse exists) is finite. If he were alive today and aware of the evidence of a expanding universe and yet rejected it, and believed that God was maintaining the universe, then he wouldn't be a credible scientist of cosmology.

Now that is the point, isn't it?

Regarding the quoted words of Richard Lewontin (words which creationist love to quote), that has been elsewhere from rationalist point of view.

[Note: I don't time to further edit my post since I have to get ready to go to work. Hopefully I don't have major typos in my post.]

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

Isaac Newton concluded that the dogma of a Triune god was false doctrine and therefore he refused ordination in the Anglican Church. He also came up with the date of the year 1914 and he predicted (based upon the Bible) that the world will end in the year 2060.

I think that if Newton were alive today (and thus had knowledge of many of the scientific discoveries made in the past 200 years) he would not be a theist and instead would be an atheist or a deist. I think he would also be convinced of biological evolution and of cosmological evolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton says the following.

"Although born into an Anglican family, and a devout but unorthodox Christian,[8] by his thirties Newton held a Christian faith that, had it been made public, would not have been considered orthodox by mainstream Christians.[8] Scholars now consider him a Nontrinitarian Arian.

... As well as rejecting the Trinity, Newton's studies led him to reject belief in the immortal soul, a personal devil, literal demons (spirits of the dead), and infant baptism.[15] "

19

An Anti-Aging Pill ( Maybe)

by metatron in

jw
friends

various researchers a have been looking for an anti-aging pill based on the assumption that, if you can maintain a higher.

level of various endogenous anti-oxidants ( catalase, sod, etc), you could probably slow down the aging process.

even some skeptics.

Disillusioned JW

Hey folks, I've been continuing the discussion about how to slow and even reverse ageing in my topic located at https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5709197172801536/if-wt-jw-relgion-where-else-we-go-why-atheistic-scientific-philosophical-naturalism since that topic is about science and naturalism.

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

News article: "‘Miracle molecules’ discovered? Scientists find compound that reverses aging, develop ‘longevity drug’ " located at https://studyfinds.org/miracle-drug-reverse-aging-process/ .See also https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/960488 . [That latter article is called "New molecule developed at Hebrew U. may prevent age-related diseases and increase life expectancy and wellness: With a constant renewal of cell vitality in diseased tissues, this new drug will hopefully lead to the treatment or prevention of diseases, such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s".] Those articles were based upon an article in the science journal called Autophagy. The abstract of the science journal article is located at https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15548627.2022.2078069?journalCode=kaup20 . The abstract of that article says the following.

"Impaired mitophagy is a primary pathogenic event underlying diverse aging-associated diseases such as Alzheimer and Parkinson diseases and sarcopenia. Therefore, augmentation of mitophagy, the process by which defective mitochondria are removed, then replaced by new ones, is an emerging strategy for preventing the evolvement of multiple morbidities in the elderly population. Based on the scaffold of spermidine (Spd), a known mitophagy-promoting agent, we designed and tested a family of structurally related compounds. A prototypic member, 1,8-diaminooctane (VL-004), exceeds Spd in its ability to induce mitophagy and protect against oxidative stress. VL-004 activity is mediated by canonical aging genes and promotes lifespan and healthspan in C. elegans. Moreover, it enhances mitophagy and protects against oxidative injury in rodent and human cells. Initial structural characterization suggests simple rules for the design of compounds with improved bioactivity, opening the way for a new generation of agents with a potential to promote healthy aging."

Notice that the article mentions "spermidine". That substance was first isolated from semen and it was found in human sperm, hence its name. Many foods are high in spermidine, including dry soy bean, chicken liver, green peas, corn, shell fish, and blue cheese. Spermidine is commercially available as supplemen. https://www.lifespan.io/topic/spermidine/ says the following.

"It is worth noting that much of the Mediterranean diet contains spermidine rich foods. This may at least explain the phenomena of the “blue zones” and why people there often live longer than elsewhere.

If you struggle to get enough in your diet you can also get it as a spermidine supplement. The synthetic spermidine used in supplements is identical to the naturally occurring molecule.

... It is most well known for its ability to boost autophagy, a cellular recycling routine that can help cells remove waste and unwanted components, which is also the most likely reason it may influence aging."

https://novoslabs.com/best-anti-aging-supplements-that-harvard-scientist-david-sinclair-takes/ says that spermidine is one of the supplements which David Sinclairtakes.

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If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

See the CNN news article called "The ‘Benjamin Button’ effect: Scientists can reverse aging in mice. The goal is to do the same for human" which is located at https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/02/health/reverse-aging-life-itself-scn-wellness/index.html . It mentions molecular biologist David Sinclair (who is also a Harvard professor) who has reversed ageing in mice.The article says "Recent tests show he has a biological age of 42 in a body born 53 years ago."

I have a best selling book of his called Lifespan: Why We Age―and Why We Don't Have To. I bought the book used but so far I have only read a small amount of it. See also https://blog.insidetracker.com/david-sinclair-harvard-anti-aging-success which has an article called "Q&A: How Harvard's David Sinclair Unlocked His Own Fountain of Youth".

See also https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03403-0 which has an article called "Reversal of biological clock restores vision in old mice". See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_A._Sinclair .

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If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

waton, during most of my time as a baptized JW (including the entire time I was a ministerial servant) I was very disturbed by the Apostle Paul apparently saying that women shouldn't be allowed to preach to the congregation and become ministerial servants (deacons) and elders in the congregations. But while I was a JW I reluctantly accepted it since I thought the NT taught it.

Later, while I was an independent Christian (which included me having some liberal Christian ideas) as a result of research I came to the conclusion that 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (and possibly) verse 36 possibly were not Paul's words and possibly were a forged addition to Paul's letter. In Paul's letter he said he wishes that all people, including women, in the congregation prophesy. Saying that women must not speak in the congregations would contradict the idea of all people in the congregations prophesying in the congregations.

Also while I was an independent Christian I learned that at Romans 16:1 Paul says that the woman named Phoebe was a deaconess/deacon ('ministerial servant') minister in a congregation. But, not all Bible's (including the NWT) properly translate it as such. The ASV translators' note to the verse says "Or, deaconess". The RSV in the main text says "a deaconess of the church". The NSRV in the main text says "a deacon of the church" and its translators' note says "Or minister". The TNIV and the 2011 NIV also say "a deacon of the church".

See also https://juniaproject.com/3-new-testament-female-leaders-phoebe-junia-prisca/ which says that Paul commends Phoebe as an ordained deacon, Junia as an apostle, and Prisca as the pastor of a local church (along with her husband).

Another idea I learned was that in verses 34-35 Paul might have been quoting those whom he disagreed with. I learned the above from the following books:

- Bart D. Ehrman books called Misquoting Jesus and Lost Christianities.

- The Magna Charta of Woman (originally published in 1919 under the title of The "Magna Charta" of Woman According to the Scriputres") by Jessie Penn-Lewis (a woman). Chapter 1 called ' "Ye All Can Prophesy...." ' says in part the following.

' "All" might prophesy, said the Apostle, that "all may learn," as God gave word of wisdom or word of knowledge to one and the other--surely women as well as men--both "alls" obviously including all who might be in the assembly. This was Paul's light from God for the church in Corinth, in answer to the objections of the Judaizers, which he now proceeds to quote. The very writing of the words seems to stir his indignation, for he follows them with the abrupt exclamation or question "What? was it from you [Judaizers, or criticizers, at Corinth] that the word of God went forth? or came it unto you alone?... If any man thinketh himself to be spiritual [see ch. 12:1--knowing the Spirit, and what comes from Him], let him take knowledge of the things which I write unto you, that they are the commandments of the Lord" (vv. 36, 37).'

- Centenary Translation of the New Testament,"Published to signalize the completion of the first hundred years of work of the American Baptist Publication Society", Translated by Helen Barret Montgomery, copyright 1924 and published in 1924. In her very scholarly translation for 1 Corinthians 14:34-40 she has the subheading of "Question Regarding Women in the Churches". She begins verse 34 as follows. ' "In your congregation" [you write]' "as in all the churches of the saints, let the women keep silence in the churches ...'. For verse 34 she the following footnote. "This can only refer to the oral law of the Jews, as no such prohibition is found in the Law. Paul is probably quoting a sentence from the Judaizers."

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If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

In my first post of this topic thread I said "why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?" It appears to me that a number of people in Iran are becoming more humanistic minded. See the news article called "The Protests in Iran Have Shaken the Islamic Republic to Its Core". The end of the article says the following.

' “The protests these days are in the name of humanity, as opposed to the revolution of 1979 that was in the name of God,” tweeted Mohammadreza Javadi Yeganeh, a professor of sociology at the University of Tehran.

The 2022 demonstrations are “a social revolution,” Yeganeh added. “The protestors, especially women want to live based on their own understanding, inattentive of what religion says.” '

That is encouraging to me.

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

For more information about Bernie Dehler see https://www.oregonlive.com/my-portland/2014/10/does_god_exist_debate_on_tue_1.html , SecHummer , and https://archive.org/details/ihavecancerfutureuncertainpart1of2 .

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

Yes jhine the NT Bible (at John 6:68) does say to "whom would we go" and the WT did misapply it as to 'where else are we to go?'. I used the WT phrase (or a paraphrase of it) because I am addressing the issue of what set of beliefs/convictions should JW people (and former JW people) adopt if they cease to believe in the JW form of Christianity and thus end up not believing in Christianity at all and end up not believing in religion at all.

Most of the people who converted to the JW religion (at least those who were not raised in the religion) did so because they were convinced that all other religions (including all other forms of Christianity) are false. I am encouraging them to accept atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism as truth. I naturally would have become an atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalist, or a deist, prior to age 15 if I had never been raised to believe in religion. I wish I had become an atheist by age 15.

waton, in the situation you provide the WT offers the reassurance that though you will die, you will very likely be resurrected to eternal life on a paradise Earth, or to eternal life in heaven with Jesus Christ and Jehovah/YHWH God. Regarding the scientific naturalist point of view you, as it pertains to the situation you mention, are correct. Though it is depressing, it involves acceptance of reality. Some scientific naturalists who are also secular humanists would seek physician-assisted suicide in the situation you mention (if legal for them), rather than to drag out the dying process to its bitter end. Those scientific naturalists who are also secular Buddhists might have better copying skills in dealing with the dying process.

Rather than adopt a supernaturalistic religious view, and thus a false view, I would rather continue be convinced of the reality of scientific naturalism. If my future dying process is an unbearable miserable one (one in which pain killers and meditation and psychological counseling don't make tolerable) I might choose physician-assisted suicide. Physician-assisted suicide is legal in parts of the USA, including in my very liberal state (at least under state law).

waton, for me the deciding to be an atheistic scientific naturalist was not primarily about whether it is comforting, but about whether it is true. I am convinced it is true, despite the realization that I am truly a mortal with no chance of eternal life at all.

Before I became an atheist I met an engineer (who worked at Intel) who had obtained an evangelical theological degree but later became an evolutionist, an atheist, a secular humanist, and a philosophical naturalist. He created a discussion group on meetup.com in which he organized debates between himself and Christians. He tried to convince people of evolution and that there is no God/god. he produced numerous videos. He wrote and self published a book (or booklet) called "Modern Science and Philosophy Destroy Christian Theology". He also became a minister of Humanism and he became a director of one congregation of the Sunday Assembly. Largely due to online discussions I had with one nontheistic ex-Christian in the meetup group I became a nontheist, a naturalist (except that for a year I wasn't sure if a deistic god exists), and a type of secular humanist. A year later became a convinced atheist. The man (Bernie Dehler) who created the discussion group later got a very aggressive form of brain cancer which was terminal (no cure exists for it, none survive from it).

He looked very sad after getting cancer but (to my knowledge) he remained an atheist and a naturalist to the end of his life. Despite me being well aware of such dire end of life situations I am still an atheistic scientific naturalist.

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

The article called "A Skeptic’s Ghost Story:Ghost hunting with science and skepticism" is very good and is located at https://thinkingispower.com/a-skeptics-ghost-story/ .